Are You Wasting Time Without Even Realizing It? - Leslie Shreve

If you feel like you're wasting time without even realizing it, this interview with Leslie Shreve is for you. You'll discover productivity tips and time management strategies to help you make the most of your day.

Leslie shares her proven "Taskology" method to help you focus on what really matters, and stop getting bogged down by endless to-do lists.

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00:00 Excitement and Challenges of New Productivity Tools
01:01 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
03:02 Leslie Shreve's Journey to Productivity Expertise
04:47 The Evolution of Taskology
06:27 Understanding the Difference Between Organization and Productivity
11:53 Challenges of Managing Multiple Tools and Sources
14:40 Implementing Taskology for Effective Task Management
24:19 Identifying the Problem with Task Management
25:07 Exploring Task Buckets and Their Pitfalls
25:57 Introducing the Task Management Formula
29:19 Breaking Down the Formula: What, How, Why
31:02 Managing Time and Tasks Effectively
41:53 Choosing the Right Tools for Task Management
43:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Transcript

Leslie Shreve: 0:00

I've got this new thing, let's say it's Trello or Asana, and they're like, Oh my God, this has got to be it. Like this is the one. And they're all excited about it. And then they go try to make it work for them. And they're trying to figure out how does this apply to my stuff? How do I set it up? The problem is it's got project. It's got task and sub task and oh my gosh, on and on and on.

Jim Johnson: 0:19

And so those are easy for me. And they're always first to my list. They're always the ones I'm knocking out. I'm, I'm not just knocking off a task because it's easy. I'm knocking off a task because it brings a lot of impact for the amount of effort. So, so you mentioned some buckets, you mentioned some action items, you mentioned reference, you mentioned, I think you even mentioned garbage. Those are the three buckets that we want to put our, Sources into, is that for

Leslie Shreve: 0:47

action? It's going to be your task list. The one location that if you can build one up and rely on just that one app or that one tool, that's what you really want to do. You want it to be central, digital, and complete.

Jim Johnson: 1:01

Hey everybody. It is your host here. Jim Johnson. And on our podcast today, we have, uh, one of those guests that I just enjoy really, uh, speaking with because it really fits in my wheelhouse. Uh, I believe in these seven components that allow me to have a prosperous life with both work fulfillment and, and my personal side. And one of those areas that's really important to me is the time prioritization, the better I can prioritize my time, the better I can perform and perform at the right times and thus start to get to this idea of financial freedom. And so it's one of our major. Uh, components of what we talk about whenever we're talking about prosperous human or a prosperous contractor, this time prioritization and financial freedom and how they work together. And I get lots of podcasts or requests every single week. Most of the time, they just, uh, one of my assistants helps me get rid of those. And this one came across the board and I did some research and everything. And, uh, This, uh, amazing woman has been doing this for many, many years and, and kind of started out just kind of wanting to be small. And now it's kind of become a thing. I'm super excited to have on today, Leslie Shreve. Leslie is a productivity expert. And, uh, Leslie, I'm super excited about this. We, we got lots to talk about productivity expert. Uh, taskology, the science of getting things done. And so could you just, for the audience, kind of let them know, uh, what, how, what started all this in the first place, like the origin of it. And then how you got here today as the founder and creator of taskology, which is now trademarked in the whole bit, which is super cool.

Leslie Shreve: 2:56

Yes. Well, first, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's great to be a guest. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Um, so how did I get started? Well, it all started back when I went into corporate after college thinking I was going to be in the corporate world until I retired because my dad was in corporate. He was at Black and Decker for 33 years and has a business. Long since passed away, miss him every day. Um, but I watched him as a little girl and I visited his offices sometimes when he took me along with him. And I thought, wow, this is so awesome. I want to be in corporate, you know, big, beautiful offices with plush carpeting and the whole nine yards. And I thought, you know, business is my thing. Like corporate has always been, uh, near and dear to my heart, any kind of business. And so I went to college to get my business degree and then landed in the corporate world for about 13 years. Doing something I didn't expect to be doing, but I loved it. It was material management, contracting, and purchasing mostly for healthcare systems around here in Baltimore, Maryland. Um, but in some other businesses as well. So. It just so happened that when I got my last job, um, which was my favorite and I thought, God, I really love it here. Like this is the, this is the last job I'm ever going to have. And what I meant by that was I'm going to retire here. Like I'm a lifer here. This is awesome. But a year later I started to get really restless and I just thought, you know what, there's more to life. I love what I do, but there's more to life. I got that pull, that calling of you can use your innate talents to do something else. To help people, to serve people, to live more fully and to expand and grow and keep learning, doing different things. And I just started searching and searching and searching for something else to do. And it took a while, I got to tell you, to find what I landed in. And it ended up being a little, a lot different than what it is now, but it's similar. I thought I was going to help people get organized. That's how it all began 21 years ago. So

Jim Johnson: 4:54

one of those administrative gurus, right? Like the people that I always get because I'm terrible at being organized. And so I have people that do that

Leslie Shreve: 5:01

for me. Not, not exactly. It was more about helping people in their office or at home, just helping them get organized and doing it with them. But then I realized very, very quickly that the home part is not my jam, not my thing. It's really in the businesses where I was helping people mostly with things like papers and files. And then quickly I realized, gosh, you know, they can find or file something in about three seconds or less. And that's great. But if they can't dig out of email, they're in trouble. And if they can't get the time they need to work on their most important tasks and projects, they're also in trouble there. And if they can't. Get a grip on all of their tasks and projects and understand how to plan and prioritize them. They're never going to make any progress. So I started seeing these gaps. And when I realized the gaps within the first six months of working with clients, I realized there was more here for me to teach people. I literally changed the name of my business and rebranded and all from that moment on it, all it became about was efficiency, effectiveness, and productivity. And eventually the organization part just sort of dropped away. Now it's still part of the system, but it's now tucked in another component and it's not even the first step. Like that's just, it's icing on the cake. When you learn how to be more efficient and productive, yes, you're going to be organized, but that's not the name of the game.

Jim Johnson: 6:25

Yeah. So I'm kind of the same way. Um, I think so many people think get organized about what you do Versus how to get productive about what you do. How do you see those things as being different?

Leslie Shreve: 6:38

Well being organized is really all about being able to find what you need when you need it So in taskology that component of the system is actually in our time management component because when you can't find What you're looking for to finish that task or send that email. You're losing loads of time that you could really be using better and more efficiently. So for me, it's all about finding reference information, contacts, something in the hard drive, maybe finding an email or an attachment that's all about finding information. So that's what you want to keep organized. That's what needs a system. To hold it and contain it, but also to keep it categorized and organized so that you can get it when you need it. And it doesn't hold you up. Being productive is about your activity. That's about the steps you're going to take, whether it's a first action step, a next action step, and productivity is really all about finishing what you start. It's finished product out the door. So that could be a finished task. It could be a finished project. It's something that goes from start to finish. That's productivity. And then you're moving on.

Jim Johnson: 7:44

So how does this go whenever you're working with quote unquote, the visionary, right? They tend to be the ones that are, um, they start a lot of things, but don't necessarily finish them. Uh, they might give some good guidance and the integrator type person helps them get it done. But how do you work with folks like that? When you see that they have. This difficulty in staying on task and getting things done. And does your, um, process or system that you use, is it focused on guys like me where we're visionaries and we've got a million things going through our mind all the time?

Leslie Shreve: 8:20

Usually the person who comes to me and becomes a client is the one who is explaining their personality to me. They're saying, this is how I work. This is how I feel. This is what I think about myself and how I'm getting things done. And this is where my challenges are. This is where my strengths are. So if they're, like you say, a visionary, and they feel like they're starting a lot of things but not finishing them, the reason they would want to work with me and learn Taskology is because they're not finishing enough. It's now costing them somewhere. Now, if it's not costing you anywhere, they wouldn't come to me. It's only if you feel like, well, gosh, you know, time is slipping away and I've started 10 different project projects, but I haven't finished them and I really do want to finish something. Well, then I can help you. And yes, the system would absolutely help. Because the truth is, you really want to decide what are those. business building activities. What are those revenue generators? What are the moneymakers? What makes people happy? What serves others? And when you can zero in on that one thing that you really want to finish and make an impact, then I can help.

Jim Johnson: 9:24

So, um, I'm a big fan of Dan Martell. Are you familiar with Dan Martell? Buy back your time like that?

Leslie Shreve: 9:31

Actually, I can't believe it. There's one I haven't heard of.

Jim Johnson: 9:34

Okay. So he, he wrote an amazing book. It really, like he, uh, He took the time and was able to equate it to return on investment. Is that a similar type concept with you? Like I want to get the most out of each moment of my time because time is the one thing we can't make more of that's making it even more valuable than gold or money or any of the other things that we have.

Leslie Shreve: 9:59

So,

Jim Johnson: 9:59

so how do we get our time back so that we can do what it is that we love and enjoy, uh, all the time. And so I really like honed in on this book. I've used a lot of the stuff I've found that I was already doing. So it was from some of the other places, but is that what you're helping people do is And not just get organized and get their tasks done and prioritize their task, even, but do you do any of like suggesting maybe, Hey, maybe you shouldn't even be doing that one.

Leslie Shreve: 10:27

That does come up. It's not the focal point of the, um, the consulting that I do. And, um, Basically, we're actually identifying what it is that they need to be doing, like what they know is on their plate right now. We're getting crystal clear about that. Once we do get crystal clear about that, and we build it into the Taskology system, and set up their task list, and do all that, Once that becomes clear, then yes, there are things that even jump out at them and they say, Oh, I need to delegate that or I shouldn't be doing that anymore. I mean, it becomes so clear to them. A lot of times. I don't even need to say anything, but I do question if they haven't questioned it. I might question it. Yes, because now it's in black and white. And we can see it and we can see how much or how little they're trying to do in a day. And of course that in my system is the task time connection. And usually people have this big, huge bucket of things to do and this tiny little thimble of time and they never match up. So we get that into alignment. And that's one of the questions we want to ask, should you be doing this? Or is there someone better suited? To do that. Or should you just let this go all together? Uh,

Jim Johnson: 11:32

I like that one. That one's one of my favorites. Just let it go all together. Um, what's the biggest mistake that you see most people make? Um, they, they might be task where they, they've got a bunch of them, right? And so they're trying to get them all done. What's the biggest mistakes that you see people make whenever they're trying to do that?

Leslie Shreve: 11:53

They're trying to use too many tools to keep track of things to do. Um, Now, what we all have in our workday are way too many sources of tasks. That's not our fault.

Jim Johnson: 12:05

You mean all these tabs I have open and the different task lists and the, the, the, this piece of software and that piece of software, my email.

Leslie Shreve: 12:13

Yeah, those are tools. So you are using a lot. If that's if you're using all of that, that's a lot of tools, the sources. That group is something different. The sources of tasks are things like email, phone calls, texts, meetings, hallway conversations. You've got social media coming at you. Maybe you're part of a teams or a project software management and tasks are coming at you from there. They get assigned and they come in and they're coming in all the time. Those are sources. So email is the most, you know, is the biggest, that's where we get our biggest volume. But then people are grabbing for tools. So the first thing that people grab is paper. And a lot of people go for an app, that's true, but paper is more accessible, it's old fashioned, it's always here, so big pads, little pads, spiral pads, notepads, post it notes, steno. But then you're also going, I see whiteboards and Excel spreadsheets and Word documents, and then the task apps, and the planner, and the journal, yes! Yes, of course. So what happens is when people try to do too many tools, well now you've got a very fragmented approach to getting things done, and it's actually impossible, impossible, to efficiently and effectively plan, prioritize, and accomplish tasks, trying to manage them only from their sources. Or the many tools without missing, losing, or forgetting something. And this is where things fall through the cracks and why people pick up the phone and say, Leslie, I can't do this anymore. I'm missing out on opportunities on revenue generating activities. I'm calling process prospects back or clients back. Um, you know, not working with my team. I'm forgetting requests and questions. Like all kinds of things are just getting missed and now it's costing them, not just time, but time. But also it could hit the bottom line. So that's one of the biggest challenges that people have.

Jim Johnson: 13:59

I would agree. We, we deal with that here and our clients deal with it in their world. Um, whether it's, um, uh, source, like you said, like a document, somebody is working on in Google docs and they pen a task to you to review it. It comes from Slack and you got to do this thing. And then you got all these different things driving. Task at you. And then you're over here. Like I want to manage those things. So now I've got another tool for that, like a sauna or Mondays or one of these other tools that exist out there. How does that look in your world? Like, how do you, is this a piece of software? Is it a system that you follow so that you can like, how does it all work with taskology?

Leslie Shreve: 14:40

It is not software. What's nice about it is that it's just a methodology for the technology. So what I teach my clients will rest on any platform because it's a way of thinking and executing that will save you from the workday that you have right now. And you'll get time back. You can get one to two hours back in your workday every day. Spend up to 50 percent less time in your email inbox every day. And not only gather, but plan and prioritize and accomplish tasks faster and easier and with a lot less stress and without giving up all your personal time to do it. So in my system, we get all those tasks together by bringing them into one, consider it like an inventory, an inventory of all your tasks. It doesn't matter the source. We pull it away from the source. It doesn't sit in email. It doesn't sit in voicemail. It doesn't sit on your cell phone, in the text app. You know, it doesn't stay in these places. We have to get them all together because only then can you efficiently compare and contrast them and make smart decisions about how to spend your precious time.

Jim Johnson: 15:39

So, so that's the challenging part for me and that part I'm, I don't think I'm clicking on. Uh, very well. It's like, yeah, I got them all. I know where they all are. How do you bring them all together? Like, I w I wouldn't want to, I don't feel like I'd want to go through my email and figure out what all my tasks are and then go through this thing and get them all written down and redo it all again. That's why people call

Leslie Shreve: 15:57

me. That's exactly what we do. Believe it or not. And it, it doesn't last very long. I mean, it doesn't take very long, but the engagement is a weekly engagement and the very first thing we do is build that task list, but we don't tackle email first. Email is always, always last. And that's because that everything that comes into an email inbox really must go someplace else for the best management of that item. Whether it's reference information that goes into a reference system, or it's action, which will go on the task list in Taskology. Because you only want one place for action, but you're going to have a lot of places for reference. And so we build it, so the first thing that disappears is everything on the desk. Now, I do everything virtually for like the last 10 or 15 years, well before the pandemic. So I'm talking people through not only what they have, but decision making about how it's useful to them. A lot of things can be filed or tossed right away, but what we're getting is those legal pads and those, those pieces of paper and files right on the desk that sit as reminders of things to do. Those start to disappear as well. All the post it notes go away. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Jim Johnson: 16:59

It

Leslie Shreve: 17:04

all goes away. Um, and then you get this one, what I call mission control because it has everything you need to do, have to do, want to do, even dream of doing, but not all in one day. It's all in one system. So we're not turning it into a digital legal pad. No, everything is grouped in a certain way. You've got a really clear sense of, well, this is today and that's going to be tomorrow or next week or next month. I mean, my clients have anywhere from 30 to 150 tasks on their task list, but they're not all for today or this week. And yes, we do eventually get to email. That's last. And we do get down to zero. But not just to see the pretty white space. It's so, you know, you've seen everything, you've made a decision on everything, and you've moved it all to better locations of either reference or action, or it's gone, archived or deleted. And yes, we are looking for those tasks. That's the most important thing we pull out of there.

Jim Johnson: 17:52

So is, is it automated? Like, Hey, it's one of those things. I have to do an audit of it. Is that, is that We do it once

Leslie Shreve: 18:00

to build it. But then from that moment on person is using the system as intended and it runs itself and you don't need any automation. See, I think people are trying to overcomplicate it a little bit or they want AI to do it, or they want someone else to, you know, feed it to you. But you know what? You never want to give up that, that power of choice and decision making. Like, it's really a lot simpler than people really know and understand. Let me give you an example. You mentioned Asana before.

Jim Johnson: 18:26

And

Leslie Shreve: 18:26

just like Trello or Todoist, Monday, all those other systems that you are aware of. We burned

Jim Johnson: 18:31

all those down, by the way.

Leslie Shreve: 18:32

What was that?

Jim Johnson: 18:33

We burned all those down. It was just, you're, you're over there managing a system instead of actually getting work done.

Leslie Shreve: 18:38

Thank you. That's a nice lead in to what I was going to say, because this is where people get overwhelmed. And what happens is, if they think, okay, I've got this new thing, let's say it's Trello or Asana, and they're like, oh my god, this has got to be it. Like, this is the one. And they're all excited about it. And then they go try to make it work for them. And they're trying to figure out, how does this apply to my stuff? How do I set it up? The problem is it's got project, it's got task, and sub task, and oh my gosh, on and on and on. And none of that is necessary, first of all, because this is not project management. When you're talking about individual productivity, it is personal productivity. It does not need a project management approach. And that's what happens is people get overwhelmed, because now they're trying to get things done by project management and not task management. But research shows that it's in taking the teeny tiny action steps. That will give you the steady forward movement you're looking for in your day. So in Taskology, everything is easy and actionable and it's small. It's really small.

Jim Johnson: 19:39

So, so you mentioned some buckets. You mentioned some action items. You mentioned reference. You mentioned, I think you even mentioned garbage. Yep, those are the three. Yeah, those are the three buckets that we want to put our sources into. Is that generally

Leslie Shreve: 19:55

so for action? It's going to be your task list. The one location that if you can build one up and rely on just that one app, one tool, that's what you really want to do. You want it to be central. Digital and complete. And complete is a key word here. But then you've got reference systems, and you're going to have a lot of those in your workday. You're going to have contacts, whether in, you know, uh, Google or Outlook or, you know, your CRM or what have you. You've also got paper files and paper systems. Some people still have those. A lot of my clients don't really have a lot of paper anymore. But then you've got the hard drive, or you've got Dropbox or Google Docs. You've got a place where you put your reference information. And each one of these I'm listing off, you really only want to have just one. You don't want to have many, because that's where it gets You know, dicey. And now you're losing time because you're thinking, well, did I file it there or did I file it there? You don't want to go through that. Um, but there's going to be a lot of reference systems in your day, places where you store information and that's fine, but only one for task management. It's got to be mission control.

Jim Johnson: 20:51

Gotcha. Okay. So that's making more sense to me. And, and does it, you said it has to be digital, the task management, that way you have it wherever you are and you're always, now,

Leslie Shreve: 21:01

it's not just because of being on your phone though.

Jim Johnson: 21:04

I try not to be. I hate that thing.

Leslie Shreve: 21:07

It's because when it's all in one place, picture, picture a legal pad or a notebook or a planner. Picture how you're doing a brain dump and you get it all listed out on that piece of paper. But paper is a tool, not a system, and it can never, ever, ever be complete. Like, it doesn't have everything, so you're flying blind a bit. I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers on that one. Um, but it's not complete. It's not. So, what happens is, is when you, you don't have all of your tasks in your vision, you're really not comparing and contrasting the ones that need to be compared. Um, so people think they remember, you know, Oh, I remember that email there, and I remember that thing on my desk, and I remember that thing on my legal pad, and now you're trying to basically plan and prioritize in your head. And that's when trouble begins. So once you get it all into one system, it, it gives people a lot of relief. That's at least what they tell me. Because now it's in there, so if you don't really need to do something until, you know, three months from now, you don't want to forget it, but knowing that it's on the task list at the appropriate time, and you'll see it in, you know, maybe in three months, when you pick that time, you can now have peace of mind. It's safe. It's in the system. And you don't even need to worry about it until three months from now. That's why we're planning things out. A task isn't just for today.

Jim Johnson: 22:18

So, so your clients are kind of running all input, I'm going to use that word, from the sources through those kind of three buckets. Is this an action I need to do? Is this a reference thing I need to refer back to? Or is this something I shouldn't even pay attention to?

Leslie Shreve: 22:35

Basically,

Jim Johnson: 22:37

because I get a lot of text like text is the one for me that absolutely murders me. I get a text. I'm busy. I'm running through an airport or doing whatever. And I don't take that text that's asking me to do something or get something done or send me the thing or whatever it is. And I don't go put it somewhere. I just remember right like, Hey, Hey, When I land, I'll get that thing done. And as we

Leslie Shreve: 22:57

get older, Jim.

Jim Johnson: 22:58

Hey, settle down. Yeah, I just had a birthday.

Leslie Shreve: 23:05

Oh my gosh. No, it's increasingly hard to keep everything in your head. Yeah, that's, that's, um, risky. So, so

Jim Johnson: 23:13

what I would want to do is I'd want to like the second I get that make a copy of it and go put it somewhere digital that's on a task list somewhere and that way I'm always coming back to that same place.

Leslie Shreve: 23:23

Yes, and you'd want to actually articulate your task. So as an example, if someone sent me more, if someone sends you an email, you can't just, you know, how like in, um, Microsoft outlook, you can flag something and it lands on the to do list and outlook. Well, that's kind of useless. We don't do that here at productive day. Um, it's going to grab the subject line of the email, which may have nothing to do with your next action step. So I teach my clients through a formula. It's a five part formula, how to actually create a task. I know that sounds really elementary, but that's what it takes because a lot of people are putting things in their planners or in an app, and it's big stuff, little stuff, it's projects, it's tasks, it's multi step tasks or ideas. It's a grab bag of all kinds of different things. But when you see that all on a legal pad, And you look at it and you think, okay, what am I going to do next? You kind of hang back from those things that are really big and they cause you to hesitate and procrastinate. It's too easy to do. Right. And so they, then they go look for something that's achievable, but small, I can do that. Okay. I'm going to do that. And, and that's what causes the problem with not only paper, but the fact that. The task is not truly identified. The next action step is not truly identified. So no matter what you're doing with that text, or with an email, or with something, an idea, you know, or something sitting on your desk, you really have to articulate exactly what you're going to do. And that's all built into our formula. So that when my clients look at their task list, not only are they just looking at today, because everything else is compressed, And it's out of their hair, but it's there. It's safe, but it's gone. Like, you can't see it. Um, unless you open it up. Um, but it's easy for them to dive in because they're not overwhelming themselves with like 20 things that they have to do today. They don't have to do that many. It's a lot smaller. It's a lot easier.

Jim Johnson: 25:07

I'm really, I'm really interested in this formula. Because I'll tell you what I kind of do now. Because what I'm, I'm trying to put the tasks that I need to do Into some buckets, right? And I do keep them in one place. I have this digital thing that I use. Um, it's based off of an action matrix. I don't know if you've ever heard of that before. Uh, but it's this idea of scoring my various tasks based on effort. And reward. So the amount of effort versus the amount of return on investment of doing it gives me a score, which puts it into these buckets of like quick, when a major projects, um, when I have time and don't you dare do that, right? That's kind of my buckets that I use. Is that similar to the concept that you're doing or, okay, now I'm really good. Can we talk about this formula? Like, okay. So what does that look like?

Leslie Shreve: 26:01

Well, one of the things I want to speak to is the idea of putting things in buckets. I think that's one of the things that gets people into trouble, trying to scare you. No, that's okay. This is why I'm here.

Jim Johnson: 26:12

I'm here to learn just like everybody else.

Leslie Shreve: 26:14

Something to think about is that when you put tasks or projects into buckets and identify them that way, there's really no correlation to time. And, and we're also missing out on identifying that first action step. So even if you put something in a bucket, that is really a great use of your time and you know, you want to do it. What can hold a person back is, well, how do I get started? Or what do I do first? Or what's my first step, right? So when we boil it all down, the truth is, is that you really don't want to categorize tasks because now you're looking in like six different places for what you're going to do today. So it's really all about today. It's about the time you have. Today and what's going to fit in that time now a lot of people have white space on their calendar. It's true But then you can also proactively protect time on your calendar So it's that kind of time both the free space that was already free and then the time you might block and protect You want to kind of have that added up in your mind to go? Okay, I can see how much it's going to fit in there well That's where people also run into a challenge because now they're trying to do projects and tasks and they don't have a way to add that up. Like, I don't know how long any of that is going to take. So I see the time on the calendar, but I don't know how long this stuff is that I want to do. I don't know how long that's going to take. That's why we have a formula, because you want to be able to marry those two up and get that task time connection so that it's easy, like in an instant, you can say, yes, I know I can do this many tasks today and that many tasks tomorrow and just keep running with it. Because what we identify are all worthy tasks. Like, there isn't any, don't you dare.

Jim Johnson: 27:48

I don't know. There's some in there that are like, don't do that. Let

Leslie Shreve: 27:50

me just throw that bucket out.

Jim Johnson: 27:52

There are more like, um, those tasks that go into that bucket for me are automate, eliminate, or delegate. Like, that's the ones that get out.

Leslie Shreve: 28:02

Yeah, people kind of identify that really quickly through this process anyway, and they don't even land on the task list, you know, or they say right away, Oh, I've got to get, you know, Susie to do that or whatever, you know, so, so they, they let go of that really quickly.

Jim Johnson: 28:15

There's a lot of value in what you're saying because, um, the things I put into quick wins, they are high priority. I'm able to do them with little effort and high return on my time. Like they have impact is the word I use. Okay. And so those are easy for me and they're always first to my list. They're always the ones I'm knocking out. I'm, I'm not just knocking off a task because it's easy. I'm knocking off a task because it brings a lot of impact for the amount of effort. But when I go and put something in major projects, that's what screws me up because I have to then say, okay, that's a major project. What's my next, what's my next step with that thing? And then I take that next step and go move it over into quick wins and say, Hey, that get that one done. And that progresses me closer to that one over time. But I do struggle with the amount of time that this project It has a billion tasks on it and what it's going to take. And, uh, so what is this formula? I'm super interested. Like I love anything that has a formula like bam, bam, bam, bam. There's your end result. Go do it. And I'm like, I love that kind of, what does it look like?

Leslie Shreve: 29:19

So it's got five parts. It's the what, the how, the why, how long and when, and with each one of those components, you'll know. How much time you're spending, exactly what you're going to do, why you're doing it, you've got the details. You know, that's another challenge I think that people have when they use a little task app on their phone. Um, better to start with your computer so you have the big screen, because you really do want to have a very descriptive task when you're ready to take a step on something. So you really want to be detailed about it and put the why behind it, not just call Bob. But why are we calling Bob, you know, as an example, that's one of the pieces of the formula that I think people are missing because they try to be, they try to abbreviate. You know, Oh, I don't have much room on this teeny tiny little app, or I don't have room, you know, if I'm in one of these, uh, you know, Asana, Trello, or Todoist or whatever, and they can give you a little spot, you know, you're trying to keep it brief, but then that gets you into hot water because now you finally get to do that task. And you're like, why did I want to call Bob? Yeah. And you don't want to waste your time with that. It's a week

Jim Johnson: 30:24

later now and I'm like, what was I calling Bob about? Yeah,

Leslie Shreve: 30:26

exactly. Or it's a follow up. You know, when, when did I call him the first time? I don't remember now. You know? So you need all those details. That's one of the key parts of the formula because you don't want to just be too short and be cryptic or mysterious, as I say. You want to really, you know. Describe it out. So usually I say less is more for just about everything on the planet, but when it comes to task descriptions, more is more, it will serve you well later on. Because like I said, when you've got dozens of tasks on your task list, you're not going to do them all today or this week. So if you get, you know, two weeks out, now you're finally ready to do a task. You don't want to have to rethink that, you know?

Jim Johnson: 31:02

So, so what about these folks that are running 90 to nothing all the time? I mean, they're, they're cons I'm one of those people more than I would like to be. Okay. If I'll be, um, transparent, vulnerable here. And, uh, so the tasks are coming in, but they're too fast almost for me to process sometimes, and especially to sit down and go through a formula like, okay, is, and I kind of like, is the, what the, okay, this task just came at the, what is, is action, um, reference or. Okay, so there's more to it. It actually

Leslie Shreve: 31:36

is simpler. The reason I came up with the formula was just to teach it, like in a program. But when I teach my clients, we never talk about the fact that it's a formula. So it's a lot easier than what it might sound like right now. It just becomes a habit very quickly. Because you're literally just typing out, you know, call Bob because I have a question about, you know, contract clause, ABC. And a question about this. Okay, there's your task, but you've got to include the why, and sometimes people are in such a rush, they forget to put those details in there, and I tell people, slow down. Get the details in there. Just take a minute. It doesn't even, it doesn't even take a minute. Take 20 seconds and just get it out of your head. So that's going to be part of the what, that's a combination of the what and the why those are together. I love

Jim Johnson: 32:20

that you said you tell people to slow down. I'm very much a big proponent of that. That's why I do have Most of my stuff under control. I still feel like I move too fast sometimes. Right. But there's just so much information Bombarding us all the time. Yeah, especially the higher up you move on a leadership ladder And so I love to hear you say that. Thank you. Continue.

Leslie Shreve: 32:43

It's not it's like when you say gosh I'm bombarded with tasks all the time all of my clients are we all are but when you learn this new habit It just becomes second nature. You're just typing it out really fast, and it's not a big deal. I think if, if we're thinking too literally about this formula, yes, that can sound clunky and cumbersome, but it's not. When I teach it, it's just all wrapped up into one neat package, and my clients don't even know that I created a formula out of it. So I do that so I can explain it to people. You know what I mean? So the what and the why kind of go together because that is you describing your task in as great detail as you can. Now, if you happen to know that you've got a couple of steps, to do in a multi step task or a little project. You can note those somewhere in your notes section of the task, but you really only want to identify that very next action step that you're going to do. Like, don't try to rule the world yet. Just take that next action step and don't try to get the crystal ball out and figure out, Ooh, what else do I have to do? No. If it's not already apparent, just let it unfold. Don't try to anticipate what's Everything. Don't try to look around corners. Don't try to figure it out way before it happens. You never know what can happen. So just let each step lead to the next action step. So I definitely want to tell people don't overcomplicate this process. So the what and the why go together, then you've got the how. So the how is really important because too many people, like I said, they're rushing through their day and they just jot something on their legal pad. What you always want to do is start your tasks with a verb. Start with a verb. Articulate that teeny tiny action step, you know, start with a verb, call, create, review, revise, consider, send, talk to. I almost don't care what it is. There's only one or two that I jump on like a sumo wrestler, and they're not going to make it, and that's follow up, because I'm always going to ask, how are you going to follow up? Are you going to call? Are you going to email? Are you going to text? Send a carrier pigeon, maybe? So make sure you get that verb, because when you articulate your task that way and start with the verb, you automatically know exactly what you're going to do. You've already thought it through, and so by the time you're ready to actually take action, it's easy, because you know the step you're going to take and how you're going to take it. And that is essential. Yeah,

Jim Johnson: 34:58

that's, that's amazing advice. That's really good. Like, I don't think people usually include that in their task. It's like, um, they go to the store and they're supposed to get these items or whatever, that maybe it's multiple tasks all throughout the day. They kind of have a list of them, but it doesn't say what they're actually doing.

Leslie Shreve: 35:20

And in the business world, they might just want to say, well, I need to call Bob Smith and I need to ask him about this. And what they do is they write Bob Smith and they write. You know, ABC. And then later they're like, well, I don't remember what that was about. And I didn't remember if I was going to call him or even, I don't know, you know, and things get crossed out. Now, usually if they put the, the more of a description there, it's going to jog their memory, but, but they still have to stop and think for a second, okay, what do I really want to do what we do up front? When we build the whole list. is you've already, you've already said exactly what you're going to do. Not that you can't change your mind, because you can, of course. You're not locked in. Um, but it's actually pretty quick to build the task list in that one big push. And you'd be surprised how many things that might be on your desk or somewhere else that you really don't need and it's just clouding up your, your plan for the day.

Jim Johnson: 36:08

So I get the what, I get how it's tied to the why. So the why kind of, the way I thought about that is like, it starts to lead towards the importance of it. Is that fair?

Leslie Shreve: 36:20

Yeah. It's, it's about the outcomes. Like what do you expect out of this? Why do you want to make that email? Why do you want to create that report? You know, um, you're going to create an agenda for a meeting and you want to include the things you want to talk about at the meeting. That's less about the why and just more about the, what do we want to accomplish? What are the outcomes? What are the expected results? Right. So I'm going to take this action step and what is it supposed to lead to basically? So the what, the what is the, the task itself, it's what do you need to do, how is how you're going to do it, that's your verb, and then the why is the why behind you're taking, why you're taking that step, and then how long, and here's the juicy part, Jim. I was

Jim Johnson: 36:59

going to say this was going to be a fun one.

Leslie Shreve: 37:01

This is the good one. You ready? Every task in Taskology is 30 seconds to 30 minutes long, period, end of story. This is how people do the math. You've got to identify an action step. That fits in that area. Now we have exceptions. Sure. And if you said, Leslie, I'm going to start writing a book and I want to sink into it for two hours. Well, we're going to block time on the calendar. That's easy peasy. But when we're talking about getting things done in your day, generally most tasks are two minute, five minute, 10 minute, 20 minute tasks. Almost all of them are going to be 30 minutes or less. And even if you said, well, this project is going to take me longer. Well, we have ways in our system of breaking that down. Okay.

Jim Johnson: 37:43

Well, I was just about to ask that. If it takes more than 30 minutes, it sounds more like a project than a task.

Leslie Shreve: 37:50

And it can be, but we break it down because far too often people are not identifying the way to get it started. I

Jim Johnson: 37:59

was going to use your book thing for an example. Sure. I wrote a book, actually, so that I kind of went through this, and the start of anything Is usually the most difficult part like where do I and I'm actually writing some newsletters right now. So that part is also challenging me a bit and so what I did is I broke it down into tasks like you're saying I went topic. Let's get that done first. Outline. Let's get that done. And those, shorter pieces of this ultimate big thing I want to get done. And then I put them in order of which, and it's usually logical, like, Hey, write the topic first, then write this. And like, it just works that way. Is that kind of how your system is?

Leslie Shreve: 38:44

Yes, because far too often people are thinking, I have to have this time. And then they hesitate and procrastinate because they can't get that two hours or that four hours or that three hours. And I say to the client, okay, but you can actually get started sooner because all you have to do. And I, and I kind of pull it out of them in an exercise that I do with them. And I say, okay. Jim, if you were going to do this today, if you had nothing else on your calendar today, and we weren't on this call, and you were going to start, what would you literally do first? And they always come up with it. And I said, there you go. That's your task. That is all you have to do to get this ball rolling. Because if you do get more time, if you happen to have another 20 minutes, we'll by all means continue. I won't stop you. If you have a whole nother hour, great. Rock and roll. But the point is you've got to get started. And then from that point on, it's, you've got to keep it in motion. Get that ball moving forward. What's the next action step. It will unfold. And don't stress about what it is. Just let it unfold because you'll know what it is when you get there. And when you start thinking in this way, Um, teeny tiny action steps, you know, things that I can do, make that call, leave that voicemail, voicemail, send that email, whatever it is, you kind of get in the groove of I'm looking for small things to accomplish, but I'm moving big things forward.

Jim Johnson: 40:03

That's, that's really good. I, uh, I'm a big believer in that, you know, a bunch of little bitty steps end up winning a race, right?

Leslie Shreve: 40:10

Always.

Jim Johnson: 40:10

Uh, so, uh, that's really good. Yeah. So how long, and then the win, like that part seems really important to me. The win, yeah.

Leslie Shreve: 40:17

So in our system, it's not about due date DUE. No, we use that field, but it's Dio. When are you going to do that task? It's all about the action date, not to lock people in because your day is always changing. So your task list is always changing and shifting, you know, priority shift, like sand in the wind. So we've got to have a task list. That's both strong and flexible to keep up with that. So we do give target dates of action to all of our tasks. in the task list. But as you get closer to those days and you have new tasks coming in all the time and things are changing, you have to have the flexibility and the ease of use of whatever tool you're using to be able to either change dates or click and drag or whatever your system allows you to do so that you can pivot and turn on a dime, but without missing, losing or forgetting anything. So the target date of action is really a place to start. to start given the information, you know, today, you know, I need to do this today. I got to do that next Wednesday or Tuesday or Monday or whatever it is. And then things shift and, you know, change a little bit as you get closer to those days. But you're not trying to do like this much, you know, a huge amount. It's all in our system. It's all like manageable, realistic, doable. And the only way you can make those decisions is by seeing them all in the same system.

Jim Johnson: 41:35

That's really great. Now. I understand the concept. I would obviously need more help to like nail it down and be great at it, and I know that's what you do. Is there, where they put it digitally, do you find any commonality among your, um, clients that you work with? Do they tend to like, hey, I use this note taking tool, whatever that may be, like GoodNotes or Google Keep, or is it all just random and they can pick whatever they want?

Leslie Shreve: 42:02

Well, for 20 years And I know not everybody's going to want to hear this one, but for 20 years, I've been working mostly in corporate. And yes, they are stuck with Microsoft Outlook, and I've been using it for 30 years. And that is the most powerful place you can put this whole system right now. But I have worked with other ones, so people are bringing me things like Todoist. And from what I can see, that is one of the best ones so far. But I would have to have people bring me more stuff so I can see them and make other decisions. You know, I haven't seen Notion. I haven't seen Monday. Um, I've seen a lot of different ones because I'll go check out all their demos and see how they work. And I'm not impressed, I'm sorry, about a lot of them because they're so project oriented. Like they're for project, literal project management. But for personal productivity, I want to steer people in a different, more simpler direction because the only two things you really need to care about are what am I going to do and when am I going to do it? And that's it. We don't need bells and whistles and colors and categories and all that stuff. We are not organizing anything here. We are getting tasks in a system that will drive you forward and make you more efficient and effective and productive. It does not need to be color coded.

Jim Johnson: 43:12

Becomes a task just to take care of your tasks.

Leslie Shreve: 43:14

Right. And this is so much easier because once you get it in there, it's really, I mean, it's not sexy and that's probably why people are not excited about it because maybe they want all the bells and whistles. Not only that, but when they invest in something like that, they think, Oh, if I'm not using all this stuff, I'm not getting the value out of it. Well, I don't want people to feel that guilt either or that pressure, because honestly, you don't need all that. You really don't.

Jim Johnson: 43:37

It's really good. So, uh, Leslie, I know you have a hard stop at the top of the hour. I could talk to you for a long time about time prioritization is really like one of my passions. Um, and I would like to be better at it. It's, it's also my nemesis, right? Like I get, I get asked to do a lot of stuff and I've put a lot of things in place to protect myself there, but still, it's still a challenge after all these years. If somebody wanted to work with you, um, and it's called productive day, it's productive day. com. Is that where they go to? Okay, perfect. And you help them with these four areas, uh, time management, task management. What's the other two again real quick? Email

Leslie Shreve: 44:15

management and information management. Primarily it's task management, hence the name Taskology. The science of getting things done.

Jim Johnson: 44:22

That's really awesome. So how do they go there? Do they fill out a form? Do they set up a demo call? What does it look like?

Leslie Shreve: 44:28

So what it looks like, there's a couple things. I mean, I welcome people to just email me if they want to talk. It's Leslie at ProductiveDay. com. L E S L I E. But on our site, we also have two free gifts that will help you kind of ease into what Productive Day is all about. So the best place to start is our quiz. It's called what's your number one productivity blind spot. Now it's going to zero in on one of those four areas, past time, information, and it's a really fun and diagnostic quiz because on the outside of it, when you're finished, you're going to find out if you're a giver, a marker, a jumper, or a detective, and then you're going to get your own unique results report. After that, you're going to get a deeper dive, um, special insights report that will go deeper into what's really happening in your particular blind spot, and then tell you how to solve it. So I invite people to take the quiz. It's short, I think it's only 8 or 10 questions, and then you'll get these reports on the other side. The other one is the Productive Day Smart Steps, and this is a 52 week audio series. Two, three minute, uh, audios that I've done. Um, you'll get tips and strategies straight from Taskology and you'll get one every single week and you'll learn the strategies I teach my clients every day.

Jim Johnson: 45:36

That's awesome. Um, this has been one of the more enjoyable podcasts I've done, which sounds weird. Like people shouldn't, it's one of those boring subjects kind of to most people. I find it absolutely fascinating because. The more efficient and effective that I can be with my time, the bigger impact I can have on the world around is really kind of the way I look at those types of things. So I'm always looking, we only have so much of it and what did we get? 85 years or so is what they keep telling us. And I hear this all live into 125 and I'm like, no, please don't make me.

Leslie Shreve: 46:13

But yeah, you want to get back to what you do best, right? You don't want to waste time on, How you get things done. That's the workload management part that's stealing time from the part of your day that you could be doing what you do best.

Jim Johnson: 46:24

I want to be a ripple in the world that leaves a positive impact. Like that's my goal. So all the things that are taking up my ability to be a ripple, I don't want to do, I want to get those off of me.

Leslie Shreve: 46:35

I love that. I love

Jim Johnson: 46:37

that. Um, this has been great. Uh, first off, I'm going to go get the two free sources and I think maybe we'll talk afterwards cause I think this could be helpful for my team. I really appreciate you being on the show today. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for, uh, Working with me this morning as we had a little bit of a scheduling staff and we finally got it worked out So it's great to have you on And I hope to see you again in the future.

Leslie Shreve: 46:59

Thank you so much for inviting me to be a guest This is a really fun conversation. I would love to come back and we can always dive deeper into any one of these areas Thank you.

Jim Johnson: 47:07

Well, i'm i'm kind of sitting here going Hey, we do these group calls with our clients about time management You know, we have all these things that we cover and time management's one of them And really task management is what it gets down to. Maybe we should talk and maybe I can get you in on one of those calls and do that as well. So thank you again for being on the show.

Leslie Shreve: 47:25

Thanks, Jim.

Jim Johnson: 47:26

Yeah. Thank you very much. Let's talk to you later. Leslie, you have been fantastic. All right, everybody. That was our podcast for today and managing. It's tasks, but it's also time like you're managing these tasks so that you make the best use of your time and become more productive so that you can hopefully leave an impact on the world around you with doing the things that you love to do. And how those things actually bring you financial freedom because you're doing what you love to do. And other people want that from you. Thanks for hanging out with us on this episode and we'll see you on our next episode coming up soon. It's going to be awesome. I got a special guest for you guys on that one too. It is going to be, uh, about, um, wellbeing and performance. And so you should enjoy that. Thanks a lot. We'll see you on the next episode.