The Prosperous Human Podcast
This podcast is dedicated to helping all humans find a prosperous life. The host Jim Johnson has been using his "Prosperity Protocol" for more than a decade to find balance and fulfillment in a chaotic ever changing world. Guests on the show will be focused on the 7 pillars of the "Prosperity Protocol", Work Fulfillment, Time & Financial Security, Community, Health & Performance, Leadership, Creativity & Curiosity, Spiritual Growth & Development. They will share life experience, practical application, and data backed research to help you find that prosperous life you have been searching for...
The Prosperous Human Podcast
Bible Study EXPERT Shares 3 Surprising Questions - Marc Turnage
Mark Turnage joins us to explore the deep connections between spiritual growth, leadership, and historical understanding.
We discuss the importance of knowing one's worth, the significance of spiritual development, and share captivating stories from their transformative trips to biblical lands like Greece and Israel.
Mark introduces a powerful method for studying the Bible effectively, focusing on three essential questions and five contexts to demystify the ancient text. We also introduce BibleX, an innovative AI-driven tool designed to simplify and personalize Bible study, making it accessible and impactful for everyone.
If you're passionate about deepening your spiritual understanding and integrating it with your leadership journey, this episode is for you.
---
00:00 Welcome to Prosperous Human
00:43 Introducing Today's Guest: Mark Turnage
01:57 The Transformative Power of Biblical Travel
03:04 Mark Turnage's Journey to Biblical Scholarship
06:07 Understanding the Bible in Context
07:58 The Challenges of Reading the Bible
08:28 The Importance of Context in Biblical Study
14:47 The Bible: A Library of Books
37:07 The Five Contexts for Studying the Bible
42:11 Understanding the Cultural Context of the Bible
43:32 Exploring the Spiritual Context of the Bible
44:32 Personal Reflections on Spirituality
48:14 Three Key Questions for Bible Study
49:40 Approaching Biblical Texts Methodically
55:12 The Role of Discipleship in Bible Study
01:01:10 Introducing BibleX: A New Tool for Bible Study
01:02:30 The Importance of Quality in Bible Study
01:03:01 Leveraging AI for Personalized Bible Learning
01:15:55 Upcoming Leadership Trips to Biblical Lands
01:18:49 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
⚡️ Get the guide + The Prosperity Fundamentals course for FREE in the pH community: https://www.skool.com/ph7/about
Hey everybody, welcome to Prosperous Human. Uh, this podcast is about letting people know that, uh, they have worth and value. Uh, for 20 years of my life, I have been living what I like to think of as A prosperous life, not a perfect life. I want to be very clear about that, but because I'm very aware of seven elements in my life that are things I'm not willing to sacrifice, um, it changes the way I live. And one of those elements is spiritual growth and development. And I have a pretty awesome guest today. Uh, I got very lucky in being introduced, uh, to this gentleman, uh, from a mutual friend that said, Hey, um, I have a friend. That wants to do some trips to, uh, Greece and, uh, and Israel, and I'd like you to meet him because he'd like to do it with a person that teaches and knows leadership well. And I think you guys will hit it off. And, uh, we met, uh, you know, like we all meet nowadays on Zoom and stuff like that. And, uh, we decided to do some work together to do some trips. And we've been planning those. They're going to be amazing and awesome. But, uh, all of a sudden it came up like, Hey, uh, we have an extra space on a trip, but you got to be ready in three weeks. All it costs you is your plane ticket. Like, I'll figure it out one way or the other. And with my schedule, it's pretty wild to make that happen. But God does what God does. I didn't have a whole lot going on at that particular time for travel. And, uh, I was able to move a few things around and participate in this trip. It was transformational. It was unbelievable. It is so different, um, being here in America and learning about the Bible, uh, going to church, being in your groups, uh, whether those are Bible studies or small groups, and then actually putting your feet on the ground in a place where things are two, three, five thousand years old, and understanding culturally And in context what was really happening. And I want to talk about some of that stuff today with my guest Mark Turnage. Mark, thanks a lot for uh, driving in. Like we're here face to face. This is actually pretty cool. Um, I really enjoyed our time together in Greece and I think some of the things I learned are going to be important for the folks that uh, hang out and listen to Prosperous Human. So tell us a little bit of background, how you got to where you are, Let everybody know all the, like, all the scholarly stuff, that cool thing. I couldn't even remember it all.
Marc Turnage:Well, Jim, it's good to be with you and, uh, see you again. Yeah. And just get to hang out. Um, so my background is, uh, the short, long version. I, as a kid, I had wanted to be a neurosurgeon. And I, so when I went off to college, that was the goal, to go to medical school. But, uh, I Even though I was raised in church, I really had my kind of come to Jesus moment the summer before my senior year of high school and Went to a Christian college first semester loved my Bible classes hated my science classes So I switched to being a Bible major didn't really have the design to be a pastor or anything like that I I love the academic pursuit of studying the Bible And, um, long story shorter, I wound up, uh, graduating my undergraduate, moved to Israel for my master's degree. And my PhD lived in Israel for seven years. And then for really over the past 25 years have been leading, uh, travel experiences for. Big groups, small groups, churches, academic institutions to the lands of the Bible. Israel, Jordan, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, and Italy. Because for me, I feel like being in the physical setting of the world of the Bible helps us to better understand and engage the words of the Bible. Um, I was on the academic route. I was gonna teach, wanted to be a professor in a university and everything like that. Um, Did that for a bit, but frankly just didn't like the trajectory of higher education and I shifted became went into business and Now I have two businesses that really focus around this whole issue of helping people understand how to read the Bible Applying it to their lives and encountering the God of the Bible and for me one of those businesses takes tours and And has these on site learning experiences because I feel that that can excite, empower, and transform our ability to read the Bible for ourselves.
Jim Johnson:Yeah, it
Marc Turnage:was,
Jim Johnson:I've had people tell me, like, after they've gone to a trip to Israel or Greece or wherever, and they experience that, it's like, You just don't get it unless you've done it. It was the truth. I was like, yeah, whatever like I get it And so I think part of it is The way we biblically study here versus actually applying what we're studying over there makes that difference it you can put it into the I want to hit that word for just a second, because we hear that all the time, right? You need to study the Bible in context, and this is one of the things I learned from you while we were there is, well, what context? What are we trying to talk about and understand when we say studying the The context of the Bible.
Marc Turnage:So I think that there, for me, really, actually 2020 when the pandemic hit was kind of an inflection point for me personally, because I was trying to put my finger on something that was just bothering me and bothered me for years. Because like you said, everybody say, well, you know, you need to go, you know, seeing it is, is, is different than just sitting in your, your home or in your church or in your small group and reading the Bible. And there's truth to that. But for all the people that go on trips, the thing that always frustrated me is, It would, they would say, okay, it's like taking your, your image and going from black and white to, you know, high def Blu ray type of stuff, right? And okay, yes. But does that move the needle in helping us to be able to read the Bible? Because I think fundamentally one of the challenges most people have in reading the Bible is they find it confusing.
Jim Johnson:Amen to that. Like, that's been me for years, like, I would, I would call myself, um, a surface reader, in other words, I read through it, try to glean something that's important to me from the thing I read, hoping and praying that God puts the right words in front of me for that day of the thing I either need for now, or even going into the future, And I, and I think we read the Bible that way, this, what does the Bible mean to me right now and in the space that I'm in?
Marc Turnage:Well, and I think that that becomes part of the challenge, right? Because so like, take a book like Leviticus, right? I mean, you know, every, every, you know, everybody starts out the year saying, I want to read through the Bible in the year and that goes great until you hit Leviticus. And I always say Leviticus is where all the annual Bible reading plans go to die. And, and, and the reason for this is because. Exactly what you're saying. We process, well, what does this mean to me? The world of Leviticus is not my world. Not at all. And, and so That's where I sat down, the pandemic really shut me down in my own travel, and I had to sit here and go, okay, how can I reverse engineer how I study the Bible as a scholar, but make it in a way that is simple, understandable, and repeatable, and coming back to this thing of context that you mentioned, this was really kind of the, the, the, the key, because everybody will tell you Context is king and you've got to study the Bible in context, but nobody tells you what are the Contexts that you need to be aware of and how do you access those contexts?
Jim Johnson:And so it's really interesting you say that way because I think we all think Context of time and place right? That's that's maybe what we were gleaning from somebody whenever they say study the Bible in context But it's not really that's just a piece of it, right?
Marc Turnage:Correct. It's very easy to get people to understand. Okay. Well, maybe you need to look at a map when you're reading the Bible, right? That's why a lot of Bibles, if you still actually use printed Bibles, they have maps in them, right? But, and even realizing, okay, that was long ago, way back then, you know, the days of yore type of thing. But, but the There's a, the British novelist, LP Hartley made a statement, um, that the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. And to me, I think that that really. is so foundational because it's not just about time and space. It's fundamentally about culture. And the cultural world of the Bible is different than ours. This is where the confusion comes. Not just because, okay, we don't understand the physical locations because I can't have a mental image of it in my head, you know, and, and that's what people, when they say, Oh, it transforms me when I go there because now they have those mental images for themselves. But it's the disconnect of culture where the Bible belongs to its cultural world and not ours and That's very different. Just like, you know even if I travel the world today and I go to different cultures people look at the world and express their realities very differently than say I do as a you know an American from the Midwest And it's learning to be sensitive to those kinds of things that are embedded within the Bible. I'll give you one example. I often will say to people that in the Bible, the we is always more important than the me. Yet in Western society today, we're so enamored with our rugged individualism that we refract everything through the individual. My buddy likes to call that the new holy trinity. Me, myself, and I. Yeah, I agree. So when we approach our reading of the Bible and we, and we We put our sense of individualism first and foremost, this book that, and well, these books, you know, because the Bible's a library, right? These books that are focused more on the we, on the collective, even understanding interaction with God in a collective sense. That puts us at a disconnect.
Jim Johnson:It fundamentally changes what's intended from the instruction of the Bible. Exactly. Um, we are making it about us and what we need to do in our life to take the next day, to take the next step, to grow and develop and do those things, which at its root probably isn't a bad thing, but it's not the way that the Bible was intended to be used. It was intended to be used in a, like you said, an us thing. Um, as a matter of fact, in, um, uh, the prayer on the Sermon on the Mount, our father, the terminology was always inclusive, not exclusive. That was one of the big things that I got out of, um, our trip to Greece is, um, you making a point to make that a point.
Marc Turnage:Well, I think the other thing that I would say, though, in, in just kind of building off what this is that. The way I would say it to people is the Bible was written for us, but not to us.
All:And
Marc Turnage:we have to first, and again, helping to get over that confusion, we need to first ask the question, What did it mean to those to whom it was originally written? And how do we go about getting at that? The Bible is for us. And I don't want to make this ever, I don't want people to ever think that, oh, this is some kind of, you know, just the past, right? It is God's word. And it has relevance to us today. But I think that if we learn how to first figure out what did it mean to It's original audiences, then we're in a better place of saying, okay, how does this bear on my life? How, how does this impact, um, how I need to live my life today, how I need to interact with people in my world, how I need to, um, live my life submitted to God's rule and reign in my life. Um, that's, I think really the process. It's, it's never, right. It's not about taking and saying, well, it's not for me. It is for us. But first, we have to recognize it wasn't written to us. And so, I have to step back and go, okay, how did the original Who was it, who was it written to? Well, I think that, like I said, the Bible is a library of books, right? It's
Jim Johnson:Oh, that, I, I can't wait to talk about this because there's two different schools of thought on that. There's the Library of books school of thought that hey, these are all separate books um that should be read individually and taken for what they say individually and then there's the This is a narrative, this whole thing all put together that leads to Christ. Is it a either or? Could it be a both and? Is there anything to any of the because I hear that quite a bit in the various different sources that you're studying out there.
Marc Turnage:I, I personally think that The, the second idea that it's, you know, kind of one continuous narrative that I think what underpins that is a set of theological assumptions and a very, what I would say, Protestant view of what Christian truth is. Let me unpack that a bit. When we think about Judeo Christianity, which is what we're dealing with here, you're really looking at five different canons, at least. Or at least five major canon forms. Of course, you have the Jewish Bible, which, you know, Christians call the Old Testament. Organized a little bit differently, but the same, same books. You also have the Samaritan community, which they have their Pentateuch, their five, first five books of Moses. Then, of course, you have the Catholic canon. You have the Orthodox canons, so Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopic, Coptic, etc. And then you have the Protestant canon. And of course, the Protestant canon is the newest. Making it the coolest. Um, and, and, and I think that the thing that I, while I understand the, the, the theological assumption that wants to see it as one large narrative book, I think we also have to deal with what it is that we actually have. And in that, because, When we come back to this issue of time that you mentioned before, right? Between David and Jesus is a thousand years. Yeah, that's wild to
Jim Johnson:me.
Marc Turnage:So, am I gonna get to know you by going and studying somebody that lived a thousand years ago? Yeah, my great great great great great great great
Jim Johnson:great great
Marc Turnage:great
Jim Johnson:grandfather, whoever that was.
Marc Turnage:Exactly. I mean, you know, I mean, we're, we're, we're sitting here in, you know, in Texas and Texas wasn't even a speck in the eye of anybody, you know, a thousand years ago, um, neither was the United States. And so, I think that what, I think part of the, again, there, we can recognize the theological impulses that, that drive certain types of things like that. But I think we also have to recognize that we have, in the Bible, books that were written over hundreds of years, that reflect how, Those authors are being moved and interacting with God and his people at that specific time, right? So when Hull writes his letters, he's not writing to ancient Israelites. Right, you know like the Bard from Hibbing, Minnesota taught us the times they have changed and so it's He's writing to a specific community at a specific time with specific issues and even we see Although there are similar themes when we compare say the letter that John writes to the seven churches in Revelation That seems to reflect a later time period than when Paul's writing Now, we may even be dealing in decades, but think about even in our own world the difference between say the 60s and the 70s and the 80s and the 90s and now we're in the, I mean, I'm dating myself here, but you know, now we're in the, you know, 2000s and 2010s and 2020s and all this other kind of stuff. And so the world changes and it did in the antiquity too. And so I would just simply say that that's where we have to become, um, going back to your, your, your question, I, I, I would tend to say that's where, by seeing the Bible as this library, we, we recognize that originally this book was written to a specific group, a specific audience. It was not intended by the people writing it to be put into a collection, but the community of faith at a later point in time. Did that we accept it right because we're a part of that community of faith, right? But that's where I think that in that sense Then coming back to your your question that kind of spawned this is that okay when Paul writes Romans Paul's never been to Rome. He's writing to a community to kind of introduce himself and That's a different community Then say who the Psalms were written to Oh, for sure. And under different circumstances. Exactly. And being, and we have to be sympathetic to that. I would also just say this, I think sometimes when we think about Bible study, we, we, we look at it because we, whether we do a Bible study or whether we do a small group or whatever, we tend to think about it the way we process education. I'm going to go get my four year degree, I get it done and move on. And I think that this is sometimes a problem that we have in our Western world, that we forget that real learning is like exercise. I can go and train for, to run a marathon, but if I never train after I run that marathon, am I physically fit the rest of my life? I mean, if I'm eating junk and all this other kind of stuff, of course not. And it's a habit. It's a discipline. And as any athlete knows, when I first picked up a basketball, or a baseball, or a football, or whatever, where I started as I progressed is not where I got. And it's that repetitive discipline that fine tunes. This is really good because
Jim Johnson:I think, um, studying the Bible, getting into the word, first off, you made it really clear, like it's confusing to most people whenever you first start reading the Bible, you're not gleaning a whole lot from it. It seems like maybe I'm reading a story or maybe I'm reading a historical document. It's all these different things. It gets her a little bit confusing and I can remember I go back in time a little bit and I'm just starting off. Habitually had a Sunday school teacher that gave us a verse a week. That was it. Like you had to read that verse Memorize it and if you did you got a stick of gum whenever you came to that was the deal Like everybody wanted the juicy fruit. Um that dates me as well. I don't even know if juicy fruit exists anymore um or fruit stripe either one of those two and But that was kind of the beginning of it And then I took some time off after I got out of high school. I think a lot of people do that when they have kids and stuff like that. Then I started reading again and, uh, I kind of took it on myself to like, just start reading, read 15 minutes, read a verse, do the Bible app and just whatever their verse of the day was do that. And each time I did that, it was like, Hey. What, what else was around that? I started to be inquisitive. I started to be a little bit hungrier for it. And so it's been this journey for a long time, 20 plus years now, from a verse or two, to 10 minutes, to 15 minutes, to half an hour. And nowadays, I spend usually about an hour a day, um, studying the Bible. But I do it differently now because I'm learning as I go along because of my hunger for that word That i'm finding and seeking resources that can explain that to me better that been down that road Much further and this is very similar to like entrepreneurs and leadership and stuff like that We're looking back to the john maxwell's the james collins and those type of folks and gaining that experience and information from them. So, um, when I was offered the opportunity to meet you, I'm like, yes, absolutely. Uh, one of my most favorite people on the planet is a bishop in the Lutheran church. These are people that I can go to and ask like, Hey, I want to invest more into my studies. I want to understand it better because this is where I think most, um, most people struggle and because of that struggle, the fruit of their efforts doesn't come about is that we're, and this is our society today. I believe you give me your input if if you would like but I think we're knowledge seekers We go out there and we're looking for knowledge. There's all of it all over the place all the time. It never stops Um, I just heard a stat yesterday from a really good friend of mine that um, The amount of knowledge that was available Was doubling every 25 years About 20 years ago. Do you know how fast it doubles today? My guess would probably be about three to six months about every hour Oh, wow the amount of information and knowledge that's available to us. So there's this massive overwhelm, right? and so we live in this place that's a um Surface level of knowledge without any depth of I call it the thin eye society We know just a little bit about a lot of things but nothing that we really And so when you don't understand something, you don't have insight. When you don't have insight, your ability to make good decisions is compromised. So thus you actually lack wisdom. That's kind of that format that I look at that in. And that was what changed for me with the Bible. I wanted understanding. I wanted to be able to discern what was right and what was wrong for me to do according to Um, my father and creator, and I didn't feel like I knew that, but that would have never gotten to there if I didn't just start doing a verse a day.
Marc Turnage:I would say a few, few things and a couple stories embedded in this that I think that you're, that you're getting, kind of you're scratching around and, and I'll, and I'll say this, that over the last 25 years, you have heard this repeated drumbeat of the growth of biblical illiteracy in the Western world. And. If you look, and I did a brief calculation just a few weeks ago, the rough estimate that has been spent between organizations, churches, church organizations, and so forth, to combat, over the last 25 years, biblical illiteracy is Conservatively around$30 billion. Yet in 2021, according to the American Bible Society, 26 million Americans quit reading the Bible. So you're spending billions and you're losing millions. And to me that says you haven't diagnosed the problem correctly. And I think the problem lies in the fact that people find the Bible confusing, and the problem further, I think is exacerbated because they don't know how. to read it and how to study it, and
Jim Johnson:I, I think some of it comes from not understanding the value it brings, because that's not explained upfront. It's just more that you should read the Bible, not what you actually. What the fruit of
Marc Turnage:that looks like I I would agree but I think that often the solution that's offered Is well, you just need to read the bible more read more and and that's kind
Jim Johnson:of like it's like a sales manager Just saying you need to make more phone calls or you need to knock on more doors Or that type of thing instead of actually understanding how to be a great salesperson gaining the depth and understanding of persuasion And body language and these things that all play into your success as a salesperson.
Marc Turnage:I also think it's like Telling somebody with a broken leg, just run faster and you'll finish sooner, right? I mean, I think there's, I, I, because I think that people find the Bible, it's weird, it's boring in places, it's, and again there's this disconnect with it. And a few years ago I was at a retreat with a number of pastors and they were talking about this very thing and they were lamenting it, and I asked them, I said, okay, where is the primary place that people engage with the Bible in your church? They said, well, in the Sunday sermon. I said, okay. I said, Can they take a person walking out of your church, can they take the scripture text you use, assuming you used one, and the conclusions where you landed the plane and work from the conclusions back to the text? They said well no. I said, why not? And they said, well, you don't really interpret, you don't do the exegetical work in front of people. You kind of do a little bit and then, but the main thing is giving them something they can walk away with.
Jim Johnson:Yeah. I studied this thing. This is what I learned from, I'm going to share what I
Marc Turnage:learned.
Jim Johnson:Exactly.
Marc Turnage:And I said, well, then you can't, you can't criticize their illiteracy because you're not demonstrating them how to walk back your conclusions back to your starting point. And, and I, I told them, I said, that's kind of like, part of it is the problem is that most of our consumption of the Bible is passive. Learning cannot be passive. That's like me telling you, you want to get physically fit this year? Just go watch everybody work out in the gym, right? I mean. That didn't happen. I wish it did it'd be nice be wonderful But it doesn't work. You got to go in and you've got to discipline yourself. Now that may mean that I have to start here Again, if I'm going to run a marathon, which forget about it, I'm not doing, um, but if I was, nobody's going to, no trainer is going to start with me and say, okay, go run 26. 2 miles today. And, and, and, and we'll, we'll start there. No, they're going to start in very small places. Like to your point, when I was a student, a master's student in Israel, my first semester there, one of my professors wanted me to go and study with her professor. This guy was. In his area of study, the best in the world and his seminar was in his home and his seminar was primarily for those who are in their PhD programs, postdocs, and he would have scholars show up. And these are people that you go into the library and their books are all over the shelves, right?
Jim Johnson:A study for sages and scholars.
Marc Turnage:So, so, so me as a first year master student, I'm buried. One night I show up in the, in the seminar was canceled. So he invited me in. He said, how are you doing? I said, I'm drowning. I, he said, look, listen, let me, let me tell you something. When you study in, in, in the court, the seminar really was looking at ancient Jewish literature. So when you study ancient Jewish literature, the thing is you need to have all of it on your tip, on the tip of your brain. in an instant, but you can't do
Jim Johnson:it is, but he said,
Marc Turnage:but you can't do that if you don't start. So start reading. And so I took up the challenge that summer while I was staying in Israel to do modern Hebrew language study, I would do my, I would go to my language school in the morning and then I'd come eat lunch, take a nap. And then I would sit in the library and just read until like one, two in the morning. Right. And to your point that you've got to start and I think that sometimes what happens and you know Even at the beginning of the year people New Year's resolution. I want to read through the Bible in a year and we think that What's going to solve our confusion with the Bible is quantity, and I would argue it's quality. Yeah, I'm hoping to make it through Genesis
Jim Johnson:in a year.
Marc Turnage:That's right. But if, the thing is, is if you will take a book like Genesis, and you will learn how to study it, then what will happen, and this goes to your earlier point about depth is what will happen is you'll turn it over and over again and over again and so forth. And even if you only get through the first few chapters of Genesis in the year, you now will have trained the muscles of your learning method that are going to enable you to now go to any other part of the Bible, any other book of the Bible and do the same thing. It's interesting. In Israel, as compared to studying in the States, if I took a course at a university in the States on Genesis, as a student I would expect to get through the entire book of Genesis. If I didn't, I'd feel like I got shortchanged, right?
Jim Johnson:In a semester.
Marc Turnage:In Israel, typically the courses, you can have semester courses, but many of them are year long. You may not get out of the first 11 chapters. In that year, but again, you've turned it over and over and over and you've repeated Your method of study so much that it gets ingrained inside of you And so I often will tell people focus on take a book learn how to study it And read it over and over and ask those questions and learn what questions to ask. I think that there's one other thing that we need to console ourselves with. Give ourselves grace. And we need to have the humility to be able to say, I was wrong. I thought this I've learned this and I'm constantly improving and doing better. And I would say. This is, I often say this to people, God's word is inspired, our interpretation is not. So hold it loosely. You know, I had a professor in my undergrad that said to us, whenever you go to write your theology, write it in pencil, because it's going to change a few times before and you're going to need to erase. And so I would just simply say that I think sometimes what we, we, we also tie ourselves up in knots. Because we, we think we've got to do this perfectly. We've got to do the, no, no, no. We're, we're always going to get better and have that humility to say, okay, I was wrong.
Jim Johnson:That's me right now. I, I, I'm in this place where I want to, I want to study perfectly. I want to, I want to highlight things in the right color for the right thing. And I want to underline in a certain way. And I, and I don't want to mess that up. Um, but I, I came to grips with it going, Hey, I don't really know exactly what I'm doing yet. I'm learning what to do. Just lean into that for now. Guess what? I can erase all of that and start all over again if I want to.
Marc Turnage:Well, it's like, okay, you were an athlete, you're a business owner. If you don't take risks, you, you started out playing ball because you just had fun.
Jim Johnson:Yeah, playing with the boys.
Marc Turnage:Exactly. And, and. And you did some things, you made contact with the ball, it got, got your confidence up, and, and, Couldn't stand somebody being better than me, so I'm gonna go work harder than you. All of that, right? But even, even in business. You, you've, you make mistakes and sometimes businesses won't survive if, if you as a business owner aren't willing to take some risks and, and so forth. We can't approach our spirituality any different. It's not about getting it perfect. Okay. Well, I've got to have all of the, you know, no, no, no. Get in there and, and the learning comes The messiness of marking things wrong and or whatever, right? Just get in there and do it.
Jim Johnson:So, so let's talk about it. You brought up the questions we shouldn't be asking and stuff like that. This was one of the things that, uh, from our trip, I felt like I got the most out of, uh, because you simplified it and even, uh, uh, Ways, right? He even mentioned how well you simplified this for everybody that was out there But you have three questions, right? And then you have five contexts, right? So we should be looking at the bible in these five contexts and always asking these three questions. Do I understand that
Marc Turnage:correctly? Perfect.
Jim Johnson:So could you share that with listeners audience you guys on youtube if you're watching I would love to hear your feedback on it. Like this part is where i'm like This was transformational for how I'm studying the Bible right now, because you simplified it for a dummy like me, um, and it allowed me to now look at it through, you actually call it windows into the Bible. I'm looking at it through a different lens now because of these questions. We've, we've kind of, um, surface talked about a couple of those, but let's just put it in order for everybody listening so that Uh, from what you got today, we want to give you some value. This is a great place to start if you're actually hungry for more out of the Bible. So, uh, let's start five. Cut. What are the five? Well,
Marc Turnage:actually, before we, before that, you have to start with a question. Okay, perfect. Because that's why we got the expert. Learning to ask the right questions is absolutely essential. I, I will say often, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. So it's learning to ask the right questions. And the three questions are these, and you need to ask them in this order. Question number one is, what was said? We have to learn how to read the Bible. Too often, we read it fast and familiarity even breeds sloppiness in our reading because, Oh, well, I've read this before, so I already know this. No, no, no, no, no. Slow it down, read carefully, pay attention to repetitions of words, connectors, things like that. Question number one, what was said? Question number two, what was meant by what was said? Remember, the Bible, while written for us, was not written to us. And as such, by asking what it meant to the original audience, we're pulling ourselves out of the equation, and we're trying to understand, as best as we're able, What did it originally mean? I'm going to come back to this question in just a second. The third question is, what does it mean for us today? Because the Bible is God's Word, and it is written for us, and the plane needs to land in our lives today. But the problem is, and where our confusion usually comes, is we ask question three first, before we've read carefully and before we've understood what it meant. So those three questions in that order. What did it say? What did it mean by what it said? And what does it mean for us today? You'll sit here and say, okay, I can read carefully. I can do a better job of slowing my reading down and paying better attention to what was said. I hopefully can understand how to apply it to me today. But that second question is where we get tripped up. Because we don't know what it meant to those who, to whom it was originally written. That's where the five contexts come in. And the five contexts are these. Number one, you have to pay attention to the literary context. Quite simply, as I've said already, The Bible is a library of books. You do not read a Spider Man comic the same way you do the Wall Street Journal. You have to be sensitive to literary context. Context number two is spatial. The space of Scripture is as much a character in the Bible as Abraham and David or Peter and Paul. So pay attention not just to sites and bodies of water and topographical feature, pay attention to roadways. That often gives importance to the sites. Pay attention to flora, fauna, climate, geology. The biblical writers often assume our knowledge of those things. So we have to pay attention to the spatial context. The third context is historical. The Bible, while not a history book, contains history, but it also is a reference of God's people in historical periods. So pay attention to time. Empires, kings, kingdoms, because again, the Bible is written against that backdrop. Luke chapter 3 begins in the 15th year of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius. When Luke begins to tell his story about the ministry of John the Baptist and the ministry of Jesus, he sets it in historical context. If you don't know who Tiberius was or when his 15th year is you're already behind from where Luke wanted his original audience to be. Because
Jim Johnson:they were already in that space. They knew. Exactly. It was part of their life.
Marc Turnage:They knew it. They, but they not only understood who Tiberius was, they understood why it was important. Right. And so if you're not familiar with anything about the Roman empire, well, guess what? You get it, you get to go study about it. Um, the fourth context is cultural and I will say this the last two are really connected, and they're also the biggest challenge for us. But the Bible reflects its cultural world. Most of us, why we struggle with Leviticus, we've never made sacrifices a day in our life. Mm. Not those kind. Not those kind, exactly, right? Unless you're, you know, a big barbecue person, and then you understand you know, roasting something at the altar of the grill, right? But, but the Bible assumes a world Where those things were, part of how people related to God. And so we have to pay attention to the cultural context. And by the way, culture can be things like marital customs, childbirth and child rearing burial, customs warfare law, all of that is culture. In the fifth context, which is really a subset of, um, the cultural context, is spiritual context. The Bible has a spiritual worldview, but not necessarily ours. Things like temples, synagogues, cultic sites, idols, all of those things form the spiritual reality of the world of the Bible. And the other side of it is that really spirituality in the ancient world was cultural because even customs and laws and, and all of those things were part of the cultural identity of these people. This
Jim Johnson:was the biggest epiphany for me, um, on our trip of how spiritual the culture was. It is, it wasn't a choice. That you were, um, religious or not. You were some form of religion. There was no. Agnostic or any of that kind of thing secular. Yeah, there was nothing secular about anything that they did and in all that they did They brought the spiritual aspect to their work their family their food Like all of it was and and I I think I knew that But I didn't understand that before we went on that trip of what the magnitude of that Can you like explain that better than?
Marc Turnage:No, I think you did a really good job, actually. The, the thing that I would say is that the way we use the term religion today is a modern concept, because for us, we use religion and there's the possibility of being secular or irreligious, right? That doesn't exist in the ancient world. In the ancient world, what we would call religion was custom law, family, civic identity, um, cult, worship, um, all of those things. Were part of and and they were at the core of a person's identity. It's how they understand that understood their human relations and also how they understood their Relationship within the in their place within the universe as it related to the gods.
Jim Johnson:There was
Marc Turnage:none of this individual identity Exactly. And even the formation of cities, cities formed around specific gods, people groups. In antiquity, gods had ethnicities. And so, and this is also true of the God of the Bible. Um, and, and so, So every aspect of your identity, your family aspect, your civic identity, your tribal, all of these things were wrapped up in the worship of, of, of your God. And so that's so foreign to us today.
Jim Johnson:Coming back from our trip, that was my biggest takeaway. What does it look like? To truly put God at the center and core of all that I do in the work that I do in This podcast today in my interaction with our audio video like everything going on How do I put that as the core of what I do and and what I came back from? the trip with as an understanding of that Is that they go first? That's really what it came down to for me is that I set myself aside Um, I have a word for the year by the way obedience That's the word because we're so much after authority these days and I think it's preached pretty heavily by the gurus out there that We need to be in control of ourselves take ownership, you know Have authority over your life and and figure out who you are and all these things where the reality is um what i've understood from My last 20 years or so, is that the more obedient I am to the word and to my relationship with God, the less fear, burden, anxiety, and all that, all that stuff just off of me, because it's His, and I'm just gonna be obedient. And so that's my word for this year, is to be obedient, had a lot to do with our trip, and then taking action on that word, to be selfless instead of selfish. To put everybody, you listeners, you viewers, you're first. Um, that's why we don't charge for any of this. That's like, we just want to bring you value. And so I want to draw back to this a second so that you, like, if you're taking notes, this would be a great place to take some notes. There's three questions. First question is what was said, what was said? And I think that one is one that I kind of struggled with a little bit at first. It's like, what do you mean by what was said? And literally, specifically, what does each word mean? And what, like, just read it for what it is. Black and white, you say a rock is a rock. Like, just what is it? And there's words that I didn't understand, nor did I understand what they might have meant to the Hebrew or Greek at that time. And this was my favorite, um, piece of advice you gave everybody. You got Rabbi Google. Just go to Google and what does that mean in Hebrew and I've been using that ever since I got my man It's opened up a whole bunch of interesting and can of worm stuff Which has been pretty cool, but then What did it mean what was meant by what was said what? Uh, yeah. What was said, what was meant by what was said, and then finally, um, What does it mean for us today? What does it mean for us today? And it's in that order is the key
Marc Turnage:thing. Like, it's gotta be in that order. Yeah, because you, even you can't put question two before question one.
All:Right.
Marc Turnage:And you have people that do that. Oh yeah, for sure. Uh, there are many people who will start, you know, talking about, well, what, what the, what, what did it mean? And trying to come up with all of these ideas of what things meant, but they haven't read the text carefully. Right. So you gotta, you gotta start in the proper order. What was said, what was meant by what was said, and then what does it mean for us today?
Jim Johnson:I mean, this is a really good example, because I'm, I'm, I'm diving into Genesis, which I've been into before, and I've studied it and the whole bit. This time through, I'm going, you know, word by word, and you know, it says God created an expanse, like. Okay, and in a different version, it says heaven and like, but what does that mean? Uh, now I'm going back and searching like, okay, what does it mean in Hebrew and, and the word division firmament? And you're understanding better and it was almost like a dome. It was like this dome that was created and I'm like, okay that made it even more difficult for me because I always went heavens are way up there and we're way down here and what this is actually really saying is Is it the expanse from the land to the waters above are the heavens and I'm like, okay Now I need to dig it like I still don't fully grasp what I want to grasp about that But I'm steps ahead. I'm steps forward I think
Marc Turnage:the other thing that I would just say is is always remember that never assume that the author of Genesis is looking at His description of the universe through, you know, our view of, you know, quantum physics or something like that. You know, we have such a tendency to try and read ourself and our world into the Bible. And I'm doing some
Jim Johnson:of that.
Marc Turnage:And, and, and that's where I would say pause. Put the pause button on, on doing that and, and, and I'll, and figure out first, not only what was said, but then, okay, how did the ancients understand this? What, what's the, the author of Genesis is writing the, the creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2 in dialogue with the world of the ancient Near East. When I used to teach, uh, introduction to Old Testament in, in the university, uh, the, the midterm exam was the students would, it was take home exam, it was an essay exam, but they had to pick either the creation account in Genesis or the, the flood account. And of course, in the ancient Near East, we have parallel creation accounts. We also have a parallel flood account, right, in the Epic of Gilgamesh. And what I would ask them to do is compare and contrast. Because the author of Genesis is, is writing in dialogue with, with his world. Not ours.
All:Right.
Marc Turnage:And I would have them compare and contrast. How the ancient Near Eastern stories, myths, would speak about the gods, and how Genesis speaks about God. How it would speak about humanity, and how Genesis speaks about humanity. And there's a lot of similarities. But the important point for us beginning to answer that second question is actually in the differences. Because that's where we see the author of Genesis reframing the biblical view of God and humanity. Against the backdrop of what was there in the ancient Near East and that's where all of a sudden it goes Oh,
Jim Johnson:yeah,
Marc Turnage:you know in the ancient Near Eastern myths Humanity is the afterbirth of creation In Genesis, humanity is the alien nation. Culmination. Exactly. And so, now all of a sudden, well, what does that mean for us? How do I treat people?
Jim Johnson:Well, and, and I know we're deep, right? We're kind of deep into, and this is why studying is fun and interesting and all of that good stuff. But, um, You say it's the culmination, and how counterculture was that to everything else that was happening around them? And so how does that affect how you interact? Exactly. Like, that's massive to me. Like, that makes a huge difference and makes clearer. God's chosen people and the nations and why it was talked about that way so much And I don't want to go too much further down that road because you and I can go completely rabbit trail on this but then you had the the five contexts which are literary spatial cultural historical and spiritual And, and so the way I'm approaching this and because I didn't get much guidance on this part I'm probably in your book that you share and all that good stuff, but I'm reading it through first and what does it say? And so I'm just doing that part through the whole book of Genesis, what does it say? Then I'm actually going back and doing the the context I read it all the way through for all the spatial stuff and I mark all the spatial stuff. Then I read it all the way through for all the historical, all the cultural, all the spiritual and marking all those each time I read it. So I'm getting this repetition of reading. But I, I wanted to know what it said first before I did those. Then I come back and I read the whole thing of what did it mean to them. And then I'm going, now I'm, now taking everything that I just learned, and now what does this mean? And how does it apply to me today? Is that a good approach?
Marc Turnage:Yeah, I, I would say the first thing I would always, I always recommend for people to do is, Remember that the ancient, original writing of any of the books of the Bible does not have chapters and verses.
All:Yeah,
Marc Turnage:that's a neat one too. Um, therefore, they were intended to be read is, is, is kind of one book, right? So, what I would say is Start by just sitting down and reading the entire book in one setting, if you're, if, if possible. I, I get some books are kind of a little long to do that, but. Some books might
Jim Johnson:take
Marc Turnage:a minute. But, don't even mark, just read it. And begin to pay attention, though, to the rhythm of the writing. Repetition of words, phrases, things, you know. Organization. Organization, structure, exactly. Just read it through. You're not trying to discover anything. You're, you're, you're the kid. Who decides to just go out and kick the soccer ball a little bit before he becomes the soccer player, right? Just go read it. You read Mojave for the
Jim Johnson:first time.
Marc Turnage:Exactly. Then go back and start reading it again and now read it for the standpoint of the first question where you're where you're paying a bit more attention to what is actually being said and and and again paying attention to Connection words, paying attention to repetition of words, paying all of those kinds of things, then come back and just like you said, read it again from the standpoint of, um, and of course in that you're going to want to start with. Paying attention to what kind of literature am I writing? Am I reading proverbs? Am I reading narrative? Am I reading, you know? Epistle whatever that is, right? And so kind of doing a bit of study so that I get a background of how I should be reading this this literature but then Yes, go through and only focus on the spatial details. Don't try and do all five contexts simultaneously. It becomes overwhelming.
Jim Johnson:Right.
Marc Turnage:Yeah, like I got to go one at a time through. Take it, take it one at a time and you say, well, man, that takes so much. That's okay. But, but never forget a couple of things and something you said to a minute ago about your word for the year really reminded me of this. Our call. in following Jesus is to be his disciple. And a disciple is a student. That's what the word means, whether you're talking Greek, Hebrew, a disciple is a student. And biblical discipleship, I think, is outlined in Ezra 7. 10. Ezra set his heart to study the instruction of the Lord, to do it, and to teach others in Israel. So our walk as disciples should be studying the word, and we need to know how to do that, but then doing it in our lives, and then gaining levels of mastery where we then can go. and teach others. And when we think of discipleship, even coming back to this whole thing of how the ancients, how interrelated religion was into every aspect, when Jesus calls His disciples to be followers when he speaks about the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven He's calling people to submit Wholly to God's rule and reign in their life in every level. There's there's there's you know for his Initial followers there was no secular part of their life there was no part of their life that God's finger did not have the ability to touch and rule and reign and That's really what We're doing when we're talking about studying the Bible. I mean, it's cool. It's fun, right? I mean it once you get into it, it really kind of gets exciting and things like that But ultimately it's about allowing God's rule and reign to permeate every nook and cranny of our lives So
Jim Johnson:here's the challenge, right? that was embedded into All things around them in their life. Not so much over here. So we're actually further away from that come and follow me where over here come and follow me is All right, that's not a big leap for me, really, like I'm already kind of there. It just means more of it over here It's like whoa, wait a minute I'm doing all this other stuff and you want me to give all that up and come and do this That's that's a very different thing in order to Get to there if that's something that you have a passion or you're feeling called or any of that kind of stuff um In our society today, especially western culture. We like easy buttons We like, uh, how do I do that faster? Can I watch a short on it? Can I listen to an audible? Is there something that makes it easier for me? Cause man, that's a lot of study. Cause I know listening to you, I sat there and went. Oh my goodness, this is gonna be intensive. I got a lot of work to do. And, uh, you've done something pretty cool. You've done this, um, You've taken advantage of the, uh, new technologies that are out there that can go to all of the text and all of the study from trusted folks that have spent an enormous amount of time in the scholarly world. Um, to ascertain the translation, the meaning, uh, the cultural context and all that good stuff. So that when we, the big dummies out there, decide we want to spend some time in the Bible, you can speed that up through your, your plat, what is the platform called? BibleX. BibleX. And so you have this platform and what it's like six dollars a month or a year a year
Marc Turnage:right now
Jim Johnson:a year Oh, yeah, it's a crazy stupid cheap I and I and I know where that comes from where that comes from is your call to be a disciple your call to study to take action like that's That's what you're doing and um, so explain, explain what that value is because would you agree with me that to most 99 percent of folks out there, we're not sitting there going, Hey, I want to be a biblical scholar and I'm going to take, cause I sat there and thought about like, man, it's going to take me probably all year to do Genesis for me to get through the Bible. It's going to be years. And whenever I get through the Bible, I got to start all over again. I'm going to glean even more out of it. This is going to take an enormous amount of time. And the way I'm wired is I want to get there very well, but I want to get there fast. I want to do it good and I want to do it fast at the same time, which is a very difficult thing to happen. So explain how this makes that easier.
Marc Turnage:Well, I'd first, I'd first say this. Again, I, I emphasize the need for quality over quantity. You know, you were a baseball player. Yeah, because I want to do the quality, there's no doubt. I, I, I, so, my question would be to you is, what, what happens, what, what happens to your play if you can't hit the curveball? Um, you're not going to make it very far. You're not, in certain pictures you're never going to see the field. Exactly. Um, and, and so. Sometimes you have to lock in on certain things. Um, so what BibleX is, is it's a learning platform driven by generative AI. But within that is teaching people how to read the Bible using these three questions, these five contexts. And also, So our AI Bible tutor is trained also around those three questions and around those five contexts as well. And then we curate the information that goes into it. One of the challenges sometimes with in, you know, what you have out there in the world of generative AI, as you know, is you can throw the whole kitchen sink at it. And. The algorithms are not discerning of what is good and what is bad. So with ours. And you're determining all this by yourself, right? Like this is all good. Well, I mean, we, we, we, yeah, we, exactly. Um, but, but the thing that we, the. Really, it's the method that is determinative, not personal choice. So, if the resources take seriously these three questions, and those five contexts, and the reality is that even many Scholars and commentators and so forth don't always take those five contexts seriously. And so, it's trying not just to throw the, the secondary sources of commentaries or scholars or whatever into it. But also the primary sources, because again, the Bible is written in dialogue with, um, other, uh, culture, with, with, with an ancient culture. Just to give you a quick example, only on the lips of Jesus do we have the genre of story parables in the ancient world and the Jewish sages. That's it. The Jewish sages in the land of Israel. So, if I want to understand the parables of Jesus, I probably ought to go read the Jewish parables that the sages said. Right? So, to train the algorithm to recognize that interaction and that interface becomes important so that now, you as a learner, can have the ability to engage with that, but also to learn. And that's why we call it a tutor, because one of the powers, you know, of artificial intelligence is the ability of personalization and part of the problem in education in general, but especially within the church is we've taken education and often calendar. More than competency drives how we educate people and it's a one size fits all Yeah, we're gonna study this piece of the Bible for six weeks and move on exactly and that assumes that everybody tracks at the same speed That assumes everybody has exactly they ever in in most people their foundations are full of Swiss cheese And you can't not only can you not learn broadly you can't learn deeply In that way. And so that's where you don't get understanding. Exactly. And so that's where we're, we're leveraging the power of generative AI, which allows for personalization and personalization of learning at scale. That's why I love it because.
Jim Johnson:We're all, we're all on our own journey, right? We're all at different places. I'm a long ways ahead of where I was 20 years ago, but I have lots of people in my life that are where I was 20 years ago. And I know what that, that journey looked like for me. That doesn't mean that's what that journey is going to look like for them. It's going to be very different. And so for me to be able to go to a tool that allows me to let it understand my starting point and have it, Walk as fast as I want to walk through it. To me, that's mind boggling. I think that's a game changer. I think that radically not only changes an individual's, um, Perspective and study of the Bible, but I think it changes a nation in a world. I think it, I think it has that power if we have that hunger and that's gonna be the key part is Do we hunger for it? Though the way that we're instructed to be hungry
Marc Turnage:for
Jim Johnson:it.
Marc Turnage:The thing is though, I would say that I think the hunger is there because when you look at so many studies that have been done and there's numbers of them, but really they boil down to this. Both for Protestants, Catholics, in the Western world, they go to church to have two things explained to them. What did the Bible mean and what does it mean for me today? And consistently, that's where they say that most churches underperform in terms of the delivery. And I think the other side of it is that
Jim Johnson:I would say it's the first part of that. And then an almost more opinion or assertion by the person that did the study. Of what it means to you today.
Marc Turnage:Well, usually what, what the study, what, what these, the, the different studies have shown is that where churches tend to over deliver is in like stage production and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, um, other offerings and, and those are necessary, right? As part of a community and building a community. But if you say so,
Jim Johnson:we can have a whole new rabbit hole. Let's stay away from that. But, but, but I
Marc Turnage:think the thing is, is that if, if. If we, if we, if we look at what people are wanting, you know, why, why, why do, why is there this? hunger that is expressed out there in the society, but then there's this falling off of reading the Bible, and I think a lot of that has to do with, again, the Bible seems so confusing to people, and if we can simplify it, and simplify the process of how to access it, that doesn't mean that you can microwave the answer. Sometimes it takes work to get there and even a weekend warrior on the golf course can tell you That if I go to the driving range and hit a thousand balls a week or whatever I'm gonna actually do better when I play on the weekends. That's right, you know There's no fast bait way To, to really success, I mean even to use your term prosperity, there's no fast bake way of doing it. It's time, it's discipline, it's habit. It's sacrifice. Exactly.
Jim Johnson:It's being willing to give up something. That isn't truly bringing you value to put something in your life that will bring you value I think we spend an awful lot of time in front of that box out there that has sports or whatever else on it I think we spend a lot of time on that device wherever mine is right here that It constantly has our attention What if we were willing to give up some of that to spend 15 minutes a day? Even if you just spent 15 minutes a day, you'd be a step ahead.
Marc Turnage:Well, I would I would say it also like this. So I think that part of the we spend time where we feel Like we can make positive change. Mm hmm. And if I open up a Bible and I'm like what in the world is this? Right. I don't necessarily choose to spend time there and I and I think that I really think that confusion point is Is the problem and that's why with these three questions in five contexts What i'm trying to simply do is simplify for people give them something that is repeatable It's understandable. I mean i've taught this to 10 year olds.
Jim Johnson:Yeah, so let's just take a Say this verse it doesn't even matter what verse but this verse Does this tool say this is what it said? Because to me it says this I'm reading in English translated multiple times over time without this Hebrew Greek like you know how to speak Hebrew Greek ancient modern Like you've studied all that and a lot of us are sitting out there Well, the only way I'm ever gonna know the Bible is if I read Hebrew read Greek and those type of things And that's not true. No and this tool actually Helps jump that gap a little bit, but it also will will give you like this is what that means This is the rock
Marc Turnage:the
Jim Johnson:rock is rock.
Marc Turnage:Well, and the other thing with this is so Language and you brought up Greek and Hebrew, right? Language is a culture.
All:Mm hmm.
Marc Turnage:And No, you don't have to read Greek and Hebrew In order to read the Bible. What you have to be aware of though, is that words in the Bible may not mean what you and I mean by them today. Exactly. So how do you get at that? And that's where again, you have a world of ancient literature. That helps us to understand the echo chamber in which the Bible is being written. And the tool, what it does, is it has that literature in the background coded with that
Jim Johnson:language. So instead of us having to go and read Josephus, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and all of that good stuff that puts context to the happenings in the Bible, and has the nuance that's left out of the Bible very often, because the listeners Already knew that they assumed it over here in these other texts. It's laying out that nuance You've now taken that put those together so that What it meant is what it meant like it gets really clear. So Um, we've been here longer than than we planned I I told you like when the conversation's good, man, we're going to keep on going and it's been fantastic um For you guys that are out there, that's Bible X. How do people find Bible X? Um, I'll have to give you the, okay, so we'll drop the link into, uh, the show notes and all that other good stuff for you. Um, I think you can do a little search on powerful Google and find Bible X. It's exists out there. Uh, it's a, it's a new thing that's coming out and everything in AI is new, I think. And so, but, uh, it will radically. Make a difference in how you see and study the bible and really Breaking through the thing. I think that you think is most important the confusion. Yes. What this thing is confusing I don't understand all that stuff. The reason you don't understand it was written to people 2, 000 2, 500 5, 000 years ago and they lived in a whole different world than we live in Let's open that world up to, to, to you today to understand it so that you can now take this what I truly think is the greatest work of all time ever in written form to radically change your life. As you get the intentionality with which that book and books of that book are written is truly incredible. I mean absolutely like mind blowing incredible. I always knew the Bible was great. The best book, right? It's so much more now. Like I'm like, this is, there is no way humans could have even contemplated putting this together. The way that's a God thing. Absolutely. So, um, Mark, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. It was great. I, uh, first off, I would love to have conversations like this all the time. I'm, I'm. Becoming a bit of a Bible nerd like I want I want to know more about that And the reason why is I do want to be obedient and I do want to serve others well, and that's that's something that's not The first version of Jim Johnson version one trying to do Jim Johnson 2. 0 here What's next for you guys? What's coming up?
Marc Turnage:Well, you and I are getting ready to launch our project of leadership trips to, to, to Bible land, starting in Greece. And, uh, This is going to be one of those trips where you got like 50 or a hundred people on it. And there's a very selective group with very selective, uh, experiences, very unique experiences. And, um, It's a trip that's built around three things, learning, leadership, and leisure. And, uh, as you know, most leaders and business owners, they need all three. And so they're very specific. They're very, they're going to be very tailored. And, uh, it's going to be you and me tag teaming. Yeah.
Jim Johnson:You're going to put faith and leadership together. so that you can bring back to your teams and your people that you lead and you're responsible for to embed your belief systems into all that you do, not work over here as secular and I go to church on Sunday as my religion. It's going to change the way you see that, um, probably for the rest of your life. I'm super excited to do this with you. By the way, this is, uh, those, the places we're going, I mean, you're going to get a lot of biblical stuff with the, you know, Apostle Paul and the places he went, but you're going to get some of the other things too. Alexander the Great, uh, his dad, actually, Philip the First, which a lot of people don't know who Philip the First even is. Uh, that's actually really kind of important to Alexander the Great's situation. And then your favorite. Who's the other guy we're going to spend some time on? Well, we'll talk about Caesar Augustus. Yeah. And the difference between like, hey, 10 years of amazingness versus centuries. Yeah. And then like, what does that look like from a leadership perspective? Um, we've got some really cool, like you, you won't know until you actually go what those special little experiences are. But I, I'm, I'm blown away about what this trip is going to be. I think it's going to be awesome for people. I hear there's helicopters involved. Uh, there's cool stuff. It's just take my word for it. We can't can't tell it all to you because then it won't have the, won't have the impact that we want it to have. But, uh, it's going to be a lot of fun putting this together. We're going to have a trip in May and then we're going to consider doing another one October, September. Okay. And, uh, so if you guys are interested, Hey, say I'm interested on here. Uh, remember. Executive business leader founder. That's who this is for. We are being pretty specific about that There's two different trips one with 20 on it one with 12 on it You're going to have a little bit of a different experience and each one Uh, but uh, yeah reach out. That's what we're here for. So, uh, that's our show for today prosperous human Hope you enjoyed yourself. Hope you have found some value. And once again, mark, thanks for being here, man.
Marc Turnage:Thanks for having me
Jim Johnson:Awesome. Peace out everybody. Go live prosperously. Put others before yourself. You'll be surprised at how yourself feels if you do so. We'll see you later.